A made up pseudo "holiday" that the African American's in our diverse community refuse to recognize. Another lame attack by Eloise that has no merit. "Eloise" will be exposed for the fraud "she" is.
no_slappz: Eloise is a absolute moron, but you might have topped her there. American black culture is probably the MOST "original" thing to come out of the United States - musically, artistically, in terms of the written word, and on and on. There isn't enough room here to list the myriad elements white culture has "borrowed" from African-American culture (and continues to in the present day).
Watching you and Eloise argue about "culture" would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. You're opposite sides of the same ignorant coin, and neither of you can see it.
There are aspects of musical culture that owe their existence to black sensibilities. YOu can probably make a similar claim for dance. But it ends there.
Sorry, but no, literature is not a point of strength in black culture. Not here. Not anywhere on the planet. The absence of Nobel Prizes for Literature should make things plain enough for you. Blacks are not winning lesser literary awards either. Thug Lit doesn't make the grade. Moreover, the general absence of competent black writers has been noticed.
The most talented black writer was probably Ralph Ellison. But he wrote only a couple of books. Baldwin is good. Richard Wright is mediocre and after that there's almost no one.
Meanwhile, you seem to have bought into the myth that much of white culture was absorbed and interpreted by whites who exist among blacks. Guess again.
You might ask yourself why Africa is a nightmare. And why virtually all the violent crime in New York City is committed by blacks and hispanics. The police statistics tell all.
I wrote a damning and eloquent response that was deemed too large to be published and subsequently vanished in to the ether. All for the best, I suppose; what's the use?
Send me a postcard from the bottomless pit of resentment and fear that you call a worldview. You too, Eloise. And if either of you ever get lonely, I think you've got much more in common than you seem to realize. Perhaps you two should go out for coffee sometime - Lord knows there's enough cafes in this yuppified neighborhood!
Anonymous: Seriously, just out of curiosity, can you mention a couple of things white America has borrowed from Black American culture? I am not attacking you, I'm really just curious.
The most obvious example (so obvious I feel silly pointing it out) is language and vernacular. And I'm not referring exclusively to white America embracing hip-hop lingo, although that's an obvious recent example (all the way up to someone as white as Regis Philbin or the like)...but also throughout the history of the development of American English. African American spoken English has often been, from earliest times, initially spurned as less polished and lacking in eloquence, only to be adopted later on as common in everyday speech (because of it's unique eloquence).
Food would be another obvious example, about which I'm sure entire books have been written (as they have been about African American dialects, I'm sure).
Music is too obvious to even go in to (all of Western popular music owes its familiar forms and structures to a musical form created exclusively by African Americans - and yes, that includes country).
Fashion would be another tremendous example.
I'm not an expert on any of these things. I just have eyes and ears and an appreciation for cultural sharing. I'm not even accusing white America of "stealing" culture, necessarily - although the accusations of theft are somewhat understandable in light of the fact that white American tends to harshly judge and publicly decry African American culture just prior to appropriating it.
Again, I'm a white guy, and I do not purport to be an expert on these things. It's just my general understanding that many elements of what is considered "American" culture have been assembled with significant input from the African-American communities throughout history. I believe this is a generally accepted notion in the kind of circles in which no_slappz does not run.
If anything, I'd say we owe much of our current vernacular and sentence structure to technology moreso than any specific culture.
I would agree that middle class American culture (as I'm pretty sure that's what Anonymous is referring to) owes much to African American roots but also borrowed significantly from Western Europe. Evidence can be seen in our diet (which for much of America consists of European and South American staples - meat & potatoes) and our work schedule although this is certainly in transformation from typical mon-fri to a blending of work and play.
However, as no_slappz likes to mention, these cultural influences are not measured in awards and accolades in the same way the arts and sciences is. There is not a Nobel Prize equivalent for cuisine nor vernacular but this lack of officiated awards does not mean these influences are insignificant.
There's the added mess of judges within organizations supporting literature and art that resonates with them, ignoring (understandably in my opinion) art that resonates deeply with another culture. So perhaps then it is futile to argue that a culture has won X number of awards and another has not.
Influences are not awarded by officials but are instead awarded simply by communities adopting them.
Because you seem to lack an understanding of the difference between innovation and derivation, you believe blacks are innovative when it comes to language and "vernacular."
Sorry, but Ebonics isn't innovation. It's patois or argot, and though it may at times entertain you, it is not an expansion or improvement of English. Black English is derivative and it's mostly evidence of an inability to handle the complexities and subtleties of our astoundingly versatile language.
When it comes to language and black mastery, the proof is in the pudding. There are virtually no talented black poets and only a handful of competent black writers. I've read their work and other than Ralph Ellison, there are few black writers worth reading.
As far as food goes, well, undoubtedly you can pick up a soul-food cookbook at Sylvia's or in the "African American" section at Barnes and Noble, but I'll bet there are very very few multi-star restaurants serving mainly black cuisine. It might have something to do with the limited agricultural output of blacks. Africa is not known as a continent that produces world-class chefs.
That raises a point. What is Africa known for? Great universities? No. Is it the birthplace of great physicists, chemists, biologists, economists, or writers who are black? No. Are there any leading black industrialists? No
Where is the black Bill Gates? The black Warren Buffett? The black Henry Ford? Nowhere. Instead, there are dictators, thugs and appallingly corrupt bureaucrats who have failed to accomplish something as relatively simple as providing their nations with clean drinking water.
In the US you can pursue what you want and get rewarded for it. Blacks have done that. They have advanced further in the US than anywhere else in the world. The number of mutlti-millionaire black entertainers and althletes in the US proves the door is open to anyone who merits the rewards this society offers.
Africa offers almost nothing comparable. However the riches do go to the thugs who control the natural resources found in many African nations.
Anyway, the few areas where blacks have shown true talent are, unfortunately, not the areas most needed to develop and build successful nations and economies. Again, the proof is Africa and black society wherever it's found outside Africa.
Like it or not, believe it or not, the violence problems in the US are mostly concentrated in the black population and secondarily in the hispanic population. In NY City over 2010, very close to ZERO whites and asians were murdered or committed murder.
That facts aside, if you feel compelled to write a diatribe in response to my comments you can e-mail whatever you like to me at no_slappz@yahoo.com.
From the Brooklynian blog -- The "natives" are restless:
Shooting on Franklin and Union st ...????? posted by sterio5 at Brooklynian » Recent Topics - 12 hours ago 12/30/2010... anybody live around there, heard or see anything..?
Another shooting on Utica and Union area .???? posted by sterio5 at Brooklynian » Recent Topics - 12 hours ago
That area been a war zone for 2010... anybody knew what happen in the latest shooting on 12/31/2010..?
Clinton Hill Gunshots posted by atlpistol at Brooklynian » Recent Topics - 12 hours ago
Anyone else just hear two bursts of about 6 gunshots each at about 8pm in CLinton HIll? 1/1/11
Ah, the trouble-making Dark-Americans are at it again...From the Ditmas Park Blog...
Mugging on Marlborough Friday, December 31st, 2010
Our neighbor Christina emails:
I got mugged tonight (Dec 30) at about 7:30 pm, at gunpoint, on Marlborough between Cortelyou and Beverley (closer to Beverley).
I’m totally safe and unhurt, the thief just wanted my bag which really had nothing valuable in it beyond my leftover chicken biryani. I hope that asshole was a vegetarian…
The police said that muggings are on the rise during hoiday season. Also when the roads are snowy like they are because they can’t get to robbers as quickly….
Like I said, I’m perfectly safe and unharmed, just pissed off. I just want people to be aware so they can take precautions while they’re out in the residential part of the neighborhood.
Posts
A made up pseudo "holiday" that the African American's in our diverse community refuse to recognize.
ReplyDeleteAnother lame attack by Eloise that has no merit.
"Eloise" will be exposed for the fraud "she" is.
Hmmmm. Doesn't a well known religion, widely disparaged by blacks, make use of a candle-holder with places for eight candles?
ReplyDeleteIs there anything original in American black culture? Obviously there isn't.
no_slappz: Eloise is a absolute moron, but you might have topped her there. American black culture is probably the MOST "original" thing to come out of the United States - musically, artistically, in terms of the written word, and on and on. There isn't enough room here to list the myriad elements white culture has "borrowed" from African-American culture (and continues to in the present day).
ReplyDeleteWatching you and Eloise argue about "culture" would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. You're opposite sides of the same ignorant coin, and neither of you can see it.
anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThere are aspects of musical culture that owe their existence to black sensibilities. YOu can probably make a similar claim for dance. But it ends there.
Sorry, but no, literature is not a point of strength in black culture. Not here. Not anywhere on the planet. The absence of Nobel Prizes for Literature should make things plain enough for you. Blacks are not winning lesser literary awards either. Thug Lit doesn't make the grade. Moreover, the general absence of competent black writers has been noticed.
The most talented black writer was probably Ralph Ellison. But he wrote only a couple of books. Baldwin is good. Richard Wright is mediocre and after that there's almost no one.
Meanwhile, you seem to have bought into the myth that much of white culture was absorbed and interpreted by whites who exist among blacks. Guess again.
You might ask yourself why Africa is a nightmare. And why virtually all the violent crime in New York City is committed by blacks and hispanics. The police statistics tell all.
I wrote a damning and eloquent response that was deemed too large to be published and subsequently vanished in to the ether. All for the best, I suppose; what's the use?
ReplyDeleteSend me a postcard from the bottomless pit of resentment and fear that you call a worldview. You too, Eloise. And if either of you ever get lonely, I think you've got much more in common than you seem to realize. Perhaps you two should go out for coffee sometime - Lord knows there's enough cafes in this yuppified neighborhood!
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteSeriously, just out of curiosity, can you mention a couple of things white America has borrowed from Black American culture?
I am not attacking you, I'm really just curious.
The most obvious example (so obvious I feel silly pointing it out) is language and vernacular. And I'm not referring exclusively to white America embracing hip-hop lingo, although that's an obvious recent example (all the way up to someone as white as Regis Philbin or the like)...but also throughout the history of the development of American English. African American spoken English has often been, from earliest times, initially spurned as less polished and lacking in eloquence, only to be adopted later on as common in everyday speech (because of it's unique eloquence).
ReplyDeleteFood would be another obvious example, about which I'm sure entire books have been written (as they have been about African American dialects, I'm sure).
Music is too obvious to even go in to (all of Western popular music owes its familiar forms and structures to a musical form created exclusively by African Americans - and yes, that includes country).
Fashion would be another tremendous example.
I'm not an expert on any of these things. I just have eyes and ears and an appreciation for cultural sharing. I'm not even accusing white America of "stealing" culture, necessarily - although the accusations of theft are somewhat understandable in light of the fact that white American tends to harshly judge and publicly decry African American culture just prior to appropriating it.
Again, I'm a white guy, and I do not purport to be an expert on these things. It's just my general understanding that many elements of what is considered "American" culture have been assembled with significant input from the African-American communities throughout history. I believe this is a generally accepted notion in the kind of circles in which no_slappz does not run.
If anything, I'd say we owe much of our current vernacular and sentence structure to technology moreso than any specific culture.
ReplyDeleteI would agree that middle class American culture (as I'm pretty sure that's what Anonymous is referring to) owes much to African American roots but also borrowed significantly from Western Europe. Evidence can be seen in our diet (which for much of America consists of European and South American staples - meat & potatoes) and our work schedule although this is certainly in transformation from typical mon-fri to a blending of work and play.
However, as no_slappz likes to mention, these cultural influences are not measured in awards and accolades in the same way the arts and sciences is. There is not a Nobel Prize equivalent for cuisine nor vernacular but this lack of officiated awards does not mean these influences are insignificant.
There's the added mess of judges within organizations supporting literature and art that resonates with them, ignoring (understandably in my opinion) art that resonates deeply with another culture. So perhaps then it is futile to argue that a culture has won X number of awards and another has not.
Influences are not awarded by officials but are instead awarded simply by communities adopting them.
anonymous,
ReplyDeleteBecause you seem to lack an understanding of the difference between innovation and derivation, you believe blacks are innovative when it comes to language and "vernacular."
Sorry, but Ebonics isn't innovation. It's patois or argot, and though it may at times entertain you, it is not an expansion or improvement of English. Black English is derivative and it's mostly evidence of an inability to handle the complexities and subtleties of our astoundingly versatile language.
When it comes to language and black mastery, the proof is in the pudding. There are virtually no talented black poets and only a handful of competent black writers. I've read their work and other than Ralph Ellison, there are few black writers worth reading.
As far as food goes, well, undoubtedly you can pick up a soul-food cookbook at Sylvia's or in the "African American" section at Barnes and Noble, but I'll bet there are very very few multi-star restaurants serving mainly black cuisine. It might have something to do with the limited agricultural output of blacks. Africa is not known as a continent that produces world-class chefs.
That raises a point. What is Africa known for? Great universities? No. Is it the birthplace of great physicists, chemists, biologists, economists, or writers who are black? No. Are there any leading black industrialists? No
Where is the black Bill Gates? The black Warren Buffett? The black Henry Ford? Nowhere. Instead, there are dictators, thugs and appallingly corrupt bureaucrats who have failed to accomplish something as relatively simple as providing their nations with clean drinking water.
In the US you can pursue what you want and get rewarded for it. Blacks have done that. They have advanced further in the US than anywhere else in the world. The number of mutlti-millionaire black entertainers and althletes in the US proves the door is open to anyone who merits the rewards this society offers.
Africa offers almost nothing comparable. However the riches do go to the thugs who control the natural resources found in many African nations.
Anyway, the few areas where blacks have shown true talent are, unfortunately, not the areas most needed to develop and build successful nations and economies. Again, the proof is Africa and black society wherever it's found outside Africa.
Like it or not, believe it or not, the violence problems in the US are mostly concentrated in the black population and secondarily in the hispanic population. In NY City over 2010, very close to ZERO whites and asians were murdered or committed murder.
That facts aside, if you feel compelled to write a diatribe in response to my comments you can e-mail whatever you like to me at no_slappz@yahoo.com.
From the Brooklynian blog -- The "natives" are restless:
ReplyDeleteShooting on Franklin and Union st ...?????
posted by sterio5 at Brooklynian » Recent Topics - 12 hours ago 12/30/2010... anybody live around there, heard or see anything..?
Another shooting on Utica and Union area .????
posted by sterio5 at Brooklynian » Recent Topics - 12 hours ago
That area been a war zone for 2010... anybody knew what happen in the latest shooting on 12/31/2010..?
Clinton Hill Gunshots
posted by atlpistol at Brooklynian » Recent Topics - 12 hours ago
Anyone else just hear two bursts of about 6 gunshots each at about 8pm in CLinton HIll? 1/1/11
Ah, the trouble-making Dark-Americans are at it again...From the Ditmas Park Blog...
ReplyDeleteMugging on Marlborough
Friday, December 31st, 2010
Our neighbor Christina emails:
I got mugged tonight (Dec 30) at about 7:30 pm, at gunpoint, on Marlborough between Cortelyou and Beverley (closer to Beverley).
I’m totally safe and unhurt, the thief just wanted my bag which really had nothing valuable in it beyond my leftover chicken biryani. I hope that asshole was a vegetarian…
The police said that muggings are on the rise during hoiday season. Also when the roads are snowy like they are because they can’t get to robbers as quickly….
Like I said, I’m perfectly safe and unharmed, just pissed off. I just want people to be aware so they can take precautions while they’re out in the residential part of the neighborhood.
So do be safe! Steer clear of young black males.